Rodney “Darkchild” Jerkins isn’t here to talk about himself, necessarily.
The highly decorated production savant has a laundry list of accomplishments worthy of recognition, including 18 Grammy nominations over the course of 24 years — taking home two wins for best R&B song in 2000 with Destiny Child’s “Say My Name,” and record of the year for Sam Smith’s “Stay With Me (Darkchild Version)” in 2014 — and this year, two nominations in the album of the year category, for his work on H.E.R.’s Back of My Mind and Justin Bieber’s Justice (Triple Chucks Deluxe), marking the first time Jerkins is nominated twice in the same category. Jerkins also worked on Eric Bellinger’s New Light album, which is nominated for best progressive R&B album.
However, all accolades considered, the super-producer says what’s most exciting about this year’s Grammy season is witnessing the many producers nominated whose careers he played a crucial role in, including Tommy Parker (nominated for best rap album and best pop vocal album), D’Mile (six nominations this year, including record of the year and song of the year) and Tommy Brown (nominated for album of the year), among others. “When I started looking at the people that were nominated, I was like, ‘Yo, this is crazy. These are people that come from under my umbrella,’” he says. “And I think that is a bigger testament to who I am as a leader.”
Throughout his 30-year career, Jerkins’ home and studio became a school for aspiring producers — like Parker, D’Mile, Brown, Harmony Samuels and even current Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr. — who later were responsible for some of the biggest R&B, hip-hop and pop hits of the century. “I would do camp meetings every week and everybody had to play their music,” he explains. “I would say, ‘If you want to have longevity, you have to reinvent yourself every three to four years. You can’t wait. You’ve got to shift sounds.’”
And that’s exactly what Jerkins did, remaining Grammy-relevant decades after his start, for his work with artists like Sam Smith, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and H.E.R. — the latter of whom Jerkins met when the she was only 11 years old. Upon their first meeting, H.E.R. recalls Jerkins chasing down her family’s car, to put the singer on an unforgettable phone call. “When I first met Rodney, he put me on the phone with Michael Jackson as a surprise,” she tells Billboard. “Reconnecting with him all these years later as an adult and being nominated for Grammys together is so epic.”
Today, Jerkins is still shaping the sound and churning out hits, working with artists like SZA, Ari Lennox, Big Sean, Ty Dolla $ign, Muni Long, Rich the Kid, DaniLeigh and Syd on their upcoming music, in addition to developing his film company, Evolve Media Group. Jerkins sat down with Billboard ahead of the Grammys to discuss his legacy in the industry and the state of R&B today.
You’ve been Grammy nominated 18 times in 24 years, this year included. How does that feel?
It’s just another day. I’m thinking about 2030, I don’t even know why people are still in 2022. I’m thinking, “What sound am I gonna come up with eight years from now?” I’m thinking that, man, R&B could really be at the top of the food chain. By 2025, it could be at the top of the pop charts. It’s creeping, up thanks to [artists] like Muni Long with “Hrs And Hrs.” That opens up the doors for more people to respect that sound and utilize it.
I try not to live in the past, but I do understand [24] years of being nominated for Grammys is kind of a big thing. I consider it a blessing to be able to be impactful to other careers, because at the end of the day, there’s plenty of Grammy success where I might not have had that gold [gramophone] in my hand, but Whitney had it in her hands, or Brandy and Monica had it in their hands. And I know that I’m the one who picked up that record. Touching so many different artists’ careers from every era is amazing.
How do you continue to stay relevant throughout all the shifts in R&B and pop music?
The mentality is to constantly keep reinventing yourself. There’s a big difference between Brandy’s Never Say Never and Full Moon, but yet they’re only three years apart. “The Boy Is Mine” sounds nothing like [Michael Jackson’s] “You Rock My World” or “Say My Name” or Lady Gaga’s “Telephone” or Beyoncé’s “Deja Vu,” and that’s 15 years later. You’ve got to keep going back in the field, keep digging for new sounds, and penetrate the market in a new way. [That’s] how you stay fresh as you keep working with younger, fresh artists as well.
You and Harvey Mason Jr., the current CEO of The Recording Academy, played a huge role in bringing Auto-Tune into the R&B realm. How did that happen?
I met Harvey around 1997. I was executive producing Brandy’s Never Say Never album. Harvey was actually one of the only producers who had a cut on that album. He approached me about becoming the in-house-producer-slash-engineer for my company. He became my engineer on many projects — Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Britney Spears — from 1998 all the way to 2002. Seeing him young and the passion he had, I could always tell that he was going to be someone different.
That was a time where technology was being birthed. I remember clearly when Cher came out with “Believe,” her voice was going through what was called Auto-Tune, which no one knew about. After that, I told Harvey I wanted to find that same effect, and put it on Brandy’s voice for the remix of “You Don’t Know Me (Like You Used To).” I wanted to be the first person to use it in R&B music. And we did it, we were the first ones. Even T-Pain credits me for it.
Aside from Harvey, you also helped develop a number of other hit-making producers over the years, one of whom has been generating a ton of buzz in the last few years. How’d you connect with D’Mile?
D’Mile was 16-going-on-17 when I met him. A good friend of mine, Stanley Brown, was like, “I got this kid. He’s got some crazy chops. You need to meet him.” He knew how I was about real musicians as producers. I said, “Can he play an instrument?” He’s like, “Yeah, bro, you just got to meet him.”
So Stanley Brown brought him to Jersey. I met him and it was kind of instant. I think in his first track that I heard, he was actually singing the demo. I was just like, “Man, this kid does it all. He sings, he plays the bass, keys, drums — that young.” It kind of reminded me of myself when I was trying to get with Teddy Riley. I was like, “Yo, your bedroom is on the second floor, you’re moving in.” And it’s true. He moved into Darkchild Studios in Jersey, and was there from 2005 to 2010.
(Ed. note: D’Mile echoes this sentiment, telling Billboard: “Watching Rodney work was a window into what I could be in the future. I unintentionally sometimes would try to think like him, sound like him, move like him, I just felt like I was the younger version of him but still doing it in my way.”)
And do you feel you learn from them?
I mean, that’s the point. It’s like the gift that keeps giving. I know the nuggets that I’m going to give out — the gems — that I call it “free game.” I’m giving you free game. Let me give you everything that I’ve learned since I was 13 years old. But by the same token, you being around me, it keeps me on my toes. It makes me understand what’s moving in and what’s moving next. Because they’re tapped in.
As someone so instrumental in R&B’s many shifts over the last few decades, what are your thoughts on the state of the genre today?
R&B was in a stalemate for a season, probably 2009 all the way to [2015]. And then someone like Bryson Tiller started to tap into trap-soul, and that kind of brought it back a little bit. Then you had dope artists like H.E.R., Summer Walker, SZA and Ari Lennox tackling R&B. But what they still were missing was going to different [chord] progressions. So what I’ve been really intentional about in the last year, are transitions. Let’s go to a pre-chorus or bridge where the chords change. I don’t know what happened and why people fear to go there. But I’m not scared because I feel like I feel like, you know, it adds a total dimension to the music. Some of the records that I’m doing with Ty Dolla $ign and SZA right now, I feel like I can shift the focus to where it needs to be.
I [also] feel like producers haven’t been allowed to produce. Everything’s been based on “Send me a pack.” And a lot of times, they’re so influenced by hip-hop, that pack is really an eight-bar loop. [Artists] are not even getting to hear changes because [producers] are not even allowed to make changes. What happens is the producers are sending the pack, the artists are recording to it, then they send it to get mixed. There’s no producer allowed to produce saying, “Yo, let’s try this, let’s do a bridge.” I think that’s been the biggest disconnect. But one thing we do know is that music is full circle, everything comes back. It’ll change when more artists are more daring to really go there and say, “Yo, I want that real R&B.”
Lately you’ve been working with Muni Long, Ty Dolla $ign, SZA and Ari Lennox — are they saying that?
Totally. I did a record with Ty Dolla $ign recently that has a verse, a pre-chorus, a chorus, a bridge, a vamp — when’s the last time you heard a vamp? I just did another record that I’m about to submit it to a super-uber artist. It has a verse, a pre-chorus, a chorus, a bridge, a vamp. It changes throughout. I’m being very intentional about that right now.
When you produce for newer artists, do they ever reference your older songs?
All the time. I don’t even like that, to be honest. They should probably do that with somebody else. I think it would be more clever if I heard it from a different perspective. Spotify asked us to do a Full Moon tribute with Brandy for the song “When You Touch Me,” they wanted us to do it over and I was like, “Nah, pass on that. That’s not something I want to do. But you should have London on Da Track do it.” I think it would be genius to hear how he’d re-imagine that song.
If you told 20-year-old Darkchild all you’ve accomplished by 44, what would he say?
He’d say, “I know that’s coming.” I predicted my first Grammy win. I actually said, “I’m gonna win a Grammy this year for ‘Say My Name.’” And everybody was like, “How are you so positive?” I was like, “I know what I know, I know what I feel.” I knew when Sam Smith was going to win for “Stay With Me.” Somebody on the other side could say, “Well, yeah, that record was a huge record.” But we’ve seen huge records not winning Grammys.
What’s your Grammy sixth sense saying this year?
I’m optimistic. If we take home a Grammy, it would be another great feat. But I’m at the point where I’m like, “Wow, I’m actually nominated for a few Grammys,” but I’m a little bit more excited about all the other people that have nominations that I’ve [worked with]. I think I’m one of the best A&R executives in the world. I see talent on a completely different level in its embryonic stage. I don’t need to see millions of streams to know if you’re dope. I can hear one sound on one on one instrumentation, and hear the potential.
