Describing the sound of Clipse’s first album in 16 years, Let God Sort Em Out, in one word, Pusha T puts it in succinctly menacing fashion: “Urgent.”
It’s as if the pair of singles, “Ace Trumpet” and “So Be It” were sizzling pre-emptive missiles setting the stage for the atomic bomb to light up the rap game, with the album arriving on July 11.
“It comes from just trying to find a feeling, and trying to think back to feelings that you once had that were very impactful musically,” Pusha T tells Billboard of the urgency surrounding the Clipse revival. “What did you feel like when you heard ‘Who Shot Ya?’ What was ‘Shook Ones’ to you? It dives into a whole world of what was urgent to you then.”
It wasn’t a linear journey to a Clipse reunion. Malice left to follow his faith after the duo’s Til the Casket Drops album, and took “baby steps” towards a return over the years, as he was pulled back into hip-hop bit by bit.
“One being working on [Ye’s] Jesus Is King album with my brother. Featuring on “Punch Bowl” on NIGO’s I Know NIGO album. Then on It’s Almost Dry,” Malice explains. “Those baby moments showed that there was still relevancy there and a space I think needed to be occupied. We’re not into existing in rap, it has to be revolutionary.”
Continuing what feels like a lost art in the genre with one of the best album rollouts hip-hop’s seen in years, the Clipse sat down with Fear of God designer Jerry Lorenzo on Tuesday (July 1) for Spotify’s Countdown To vodcast series. As part of the interview, Pusha revealed that Let God Sort Em Out‘s star-studded line-up that will feature guest appearances from Kendrick Lamar, who wanted to be on two separate tracks, Tyler, The Creator, Nas, John Legend, The-Dream, Pharrell, Stove God Cooks and Ab-Liva.
Watch the full Countdown To episode, and find our interview with Clipse diving into the duo’s reunion album, Def Jam’s attempt to block Kendrick’s verse and their Grammy aspirations below.
For the interview with Jerry Lorenzo on Spotify, why was it important to sit down with him, and when did you first connect with him?
Pusha T: I think it was important to sit down with Jerry, because I think Jerry is somebody who’s known and followed the group for some time. I go back to when he was promoting parties. He’s one of my first memories of L.A. It was important because we took this path together. Him from party promoting to fashion. Us from music to fashion. I thought he’d be a good person to be able to speak to from day one to Let God Sort Em Out.
Did he have the fashion line first with Fear of God, or did you have the mixtape first, because both are circa 2011?
Pusha T: I had the tape first.
Malice: Sitting down with Jerry and the fact he acknowledged how big of a fan he was and how important a role our music has inspired him, and the name Fear of God was heavily influenced by the work Pusha has done. It was good for me, because we carry the same faith. His line of questioning and the back and forth was relatable. To see how [influential] the Clipse and Star Trak movement has been on him, I felt really at home.
Do you ever keep score with each other when making the album, like, “Oh Malice got me on this track?”
Malice: I don’t look at it like that. People have their opinions, and what else are you going to do but compare? We’re brothers, and Pusha has been lyrically a beast the entire ride. I think when you put the both of us beside each other, what else is there to do but decipher who’s better? I don’t put anything into that. The group in itself is exactly what it’s supposed to be. We actually bring two different vibes to every song — his personality and my personality — and that is the dichotomy of the Clipse, and I think that’s what people gravitate to.
Pusha T: Even when it comes to the features, at this point making music is such a science and a formula to us that we give all our features our verses [beforehand]. When we feel like we’ve delivered to the best of our ability, it doesn’t matter what anybody else does. Especially from a feature sense, because we’re trying to make the best song possible. When somebody’s not in there with you, you have to give them all the tools, so they understand what’s needed from them on the record.
When the album started to come together, was there a moment for you, Malice, that Pusha had to convince you, or did it come bit by bit for you to be all in?
Malice: The whole hiatus for me was a soul-searching journey. Over time, when I felt comfortable — and I didn’t know if there was ever going to be a time that I felt comfortable, so it wasn’t like I was waiting for the right time — I would say that there were some baby step moments that played a part in it. The fact my brother has kept the integrity of hip-hop alive, in my eyes, the way I’d like for it to be done, made room for me to be part of a force I’d want to be aligned with. Otherwise, it never would’ve happened. It has to be something that doesn’t feel redundant. One thing I’m hearing over and over again that I agree with is that there’s a feeling that’s been restored, and I see it like that. That’s confirmation that we doing what we supposed to be doing.
You also said that “everything around is being critiqued at all times.” I feel like a lot of times with artists that’s not the case. How do you leave your ego at the door, and allow that brutal coaching from collaborators and people around you?
Pusha T: I think that’s the only way to make great music. You have to have honest opinions around. For me, I live by that. I don’t let people even in the studio I feel are just bobbing for no reason. I don’t like people who have no opinion, but I also don’t like people around who don’t know. I want people embedded in the culture and rap enough, and know the history of the group as well as the climate of what’s going on outside, to even give an opinion. That’s the key to success. Have opinions of real people around at all times. Friends or no friends, that don’t matter. They just have to be informed.
Malice: I also think self-awareness is key. You definitely have to be self-aware and sure and confident [in what it is] you do. That’s where it starts, and after I feel like I delivered my best, then I open the door to opinions to see whether I’m off, or what the sentiment is. I definitely believe that it starts with yourself. I feel like we ask ourselves questions that we already know the answers to. I know if something ain’t right or if it’s dead on. If I’m mistaken, I’ll listen and see what the consensus is of what I produced.
The mission seems to remain the same, but does anything change as far as the mentality creating over the years? From the 2000s to now, you guys are fathers, and even grandfathers. Does the approach change?
Malice: I think real-life experience, you gotta bring that into the music. That is what our fans really appreciate. The level of being genuine and the vulnerability. Not trend-chasing. We haven’t been out in a while, so I guess the thing is to see what’s going on and try to replicate that. That’s definitely nothing we would do. Just being true to ourselves and bringing that into the music.
What’s the biggest difference for you, Malice, coming into the landscape of the streaming era of music?
Malice: I’m not going to bore you with the laundry list. I will say that the attention seems to have strayed from the artistry and seems to be more about streaming and the numbers or the comparisons to this one and that one. The focus and the love for organic, true hip-hop and lyricism — it’s good to evolve, but you can’t act like the origins don’t matter. We’re still with the fundamentals. That’s why we’re here right now.
Pusha T: I feel like the fundamentals never go out of style. There are different ways to update the operating system, but truthfully, the core of it is all the same. What we’ve done is stay relevant by being entrenched in the culture in every way we can. Hip-hop isn’t just rap, it’s clothes, it’s knowing what’s good and what’s not. A lot of people forget that. That’s where you start to see your favorite rappers: “They kinda good with the bars, but it’s something a little off about it.” This is a day and age where you can’t be off about anything. People see through it. They’re quick to write you off.
On The New York Times’ Popcast, you talked about [discovering] Clipsters and how that kind of changed your scope and how you viewed yourselves in a way. Can you expand on that? I found that interesting.
Pusha T: We just came up through different eras and different times of rap music. By the time the Clipse hit, we knew a certain — I think I was speaking to the mixtape culture and how I would have to go out and get my mixtapes and find my favorite rap and exclusives and that was heavily bootlegged on the street corner of Norfolk State University. By the time the Clipse came around with the We Got It for Cheap mixtape series, it was on the internet. I wasn’t prepared for the switch. I actually hated it. Not knowing that the times were changing and this was gonna be the future. Learning experience, and luckily my ignorance in that respect didn’t bleed into anything else because I was dead wrong about that one.
Malice: At one time we thought we were only catering to a certain listener. The ends justified the means. We started seeing at our shows that it was a lot of white college kids who was paying close attention to not only the lyrics, but the things we were wearing at the time. It’s the reach of music, and you never know who’s listening or what culture it engages. We’re so appreciative of our fans. That’s a real thing with us. Those people who have not only stuck with Pusha, but the Clipse — and still following, and still remember the times, but still recognize that it’s still current and very much relevant. They and we were right to begin with.
How did Pharrell push you in the studio this time around to make sure everything was top-level?
Malice: It was still very comfortable. Very much nostalgic. Lot of jokes and a home feeling. With the level of production that Pharrell does, it’s still very inspiring. Makes you want to dig deep and come with the best lyrics to complement. It’s the same as it ever was.
Pusha T: I think a heavy focus on song structure and what he called the stickiness of making a record from verse to hook. Outside of that, I think we’re all at a point in our lives where we want to make one type of great thing. Once we hit the vein on that, then it’s locking in and doing it 12 more times.
Kendrick’s verse on “Chains & Whips” — did you think Def Jam was always going to block that?
Pusha T: No, I was shocked by it actually. I was shocked at first. We haven’t been doing anything particularly. For the past two years, it was just creating the album and back and forth to Paris. It was no ill intent in creating that song. We weren’t on that type of time, so it was totally a shock from what I feel like the optics were enough to put a halt to something like that.
Malice: I don’t know if you recall, Push, but we did all we had to do, and we delivered everything [to the label]. Our job was done. That was the last thing.
Pusha T: That is true. These were the types of things that were said.
People thought you pulled up to Kendrick’s show to get the vocals.
Pusha T: I actually pulled up to the show just because. I was just tryna catch one, and Boston was a good one. It was awesome. People were mistaken, thinking I was getting the vocals. The vocals have been in, man.
What were your conversations with Jay-Z like, going over to Roc Nation? Was there any teasing of a potential record if he wanted to test the waters?
Pusha T: I think the biggest thing was getting the deal done, and getting the business done. You always want Jay-Z to rap, and [we] always got a record somewhere for him. More importantly, was the idea of being in business with him. Everybody just executing to the fullest extent. Just getting a deal done in 24 to 48 hours. That’s next level. We did a great job in bringing over a classic product. You see this rollout, man. You could search “Clipse rollout” online and see what they’re saying. These are things we can do to show our dedication and work ethic. That bleeds onto the label. It’s mutually beneficial for everybody to execute.
Can you touch on getting features from Nas and Tyler, the Creator?
Pusha T: I’m so glad the Nas feature happened. That was a day in which we had done the title track “Let God Sort Em Out,” and Pharrell was looking for a change in the beat and he came up with the beat, and was like, “I need eight bars a piece.” And when I heard it, I was like, “Nah, this is Nas’ beat. This s—t sounds like Nas.” I sent it to him with the vocals, and he was like, “Oh my God, this is mine. I get this?” He was all in. He called me three or four times with different edits to his verse. Before he laid it down. He was writing it in real time over days. “I think I’ll be in the studio next Thursday or something.”
Tyler was actually in the studio. He was in Paris a lot, doing his collab with LV. He kept begging me for this one song he wanted to hear. I was like, “All right, I need for you to get on this album.” He was like, “Okay, send me whatever records.” He started tour, but had a setup with him out there. Sent him a few options and he did his thing. He went crazy.
Malice, did you ever feel conflicted at all in any sense rapping in this style while juggling that and not cursing?
Malice: Oh nah, you might catch a few curses. Naturally, I’m not a casual curser anyway. There are instances you catch me on the right day. Cursing is not my first go-to. My vocabulary and expression far exceeds that. I might curse you out better without cursing. People say that my eyes can curse you out.
I had to learn and it did take some navigating. Especially for people of faith, I think what they tend to do is kinda paralyze themself into inactivity by not doing nothing. By not occupying your position or your space, because you’re too busy tiptoeing. In the midst of the tiptoeing, you don’t get anything done. That does take revelation and time to understand. There is a sit-down period to evaluate yourself and understand something. All of that plays a part in finding out that this is exactly the right time. I’m glad it got to be a time to put our legacy together.
Are the Grammys a goal with a project with this?
Pusha T: A Grammy run is always the goal. We definitely would love to take home the trophy.
